Britain’s most provocative pop star is back, and the journey has been tricky to say the least. So, what’s on the mind of Lily Allen?
LILY ALLEN is sitting in a London restaurant with an electronic cigarette and nails like embellished beetles. It’s nine years since she first put her songs on Myspace, eight since she got a number one single, five since It’s Not Me, It’s You went to the top of the album charts – and since she promptly ‘retired’ from pop.
She got married, moved to the country, had two daughters, and then? Then she came back. Her new album, Sheezus, namedrops every female pop ‘diva’ working today, along with the Mail Online, and a line about Beyoncé/Hova role-playing with her husband.
“So,” she says, twisting her heels up underneath her thighs. “What do you want to know?”
Eva Wiseman: Shall we begin with the songs?
There’s one where you name the people at parties who you don’t give a shit about – “the Delevingne, that Rita girl... Jourdan Dunn”.
Lily Allen: It was inspired by one particular person who’s particularly insincere. I find that whole side of things quite funny but quite depressing.
You go to those parties – can you see both sides of that world then?
Lily Allen: There are two levels to it. There are the GQ Awards, but also the snobby launches of a new water at Claridge’s. Pointless stuff. And we all turn up because we get paid to be there.
How much?
Lily Allen: Depends. From £2.5k to £100k? Now that people don’t buy music we have to find other revenues.
Do you make a lot that way?
Lily Allen: It’s not something I’ve really been offered. But I might. I didn’t know how bad the music industry had got in those four years I was out.
So you can’t really make money from music today?
Lily Allen: Nothing. Everyone assumes I made millions from the John Lewis ad – I probably made £8k.
So where’s the money?
Lily Allen: I could sing it at my live shows, but I’m not going to do that. Or say, some rich kid in Russia asks me to sing it at their birthday party. That’s how it works.
And people ask why I did it – I did it because I wanted it to fight Hard Out Here. I thought it was funny.
How did the reaction to the Hard Out Here video feel? What was it like being the centre of a racism row?
Lily Allen: It felt pretty awful. I’d been lying in bed awake worrying about the baggy pussy line, worrying that my husband would hate it. But it turns out I’m a racist, so I was worrying about the wrong thing! No one cares about my cavernous vagina.
After a few days it got so hysterical I could stand back and ask, is this real? Do people really think I’m a racist? I’m not saying those people’s opinions aren’t valid, but it’s the kind of stuff they’d once have discussed at a dinner party. And now it’s news.
Was there more you wanted to say?
Lily Allen: Yes, but you can’t get into that. It becomes more of a story. They’ll always find a way to make you look hypocritical. I just try to stick to my guns. I know the girls on set weren’t compromised. I see them every couple of weeks. They think it’s utterly ridiculous.
I was surprised at the reaction, but it’s my ‘white privilege’ that I was surprised. I’m lucky not to have noticed the racism.
Have you thought a lot about privilege since then?
Lily Allen: It’s funny because sometimes people write it without thinking. Don’t tell me how privileged I am. Have you held your dead baby in your arms? No? But I don’t tell you you don’t have a right to speak about grief because you haven’t had all the experiences I have.
Did you watch your uncle beat the shit out of his wife? No. We all have different experiences.
Do you think you’ll ever write a song about it?
Lily Allen: Yes. Probably. But I have to make a commitment not to read the reactions to my work.
Is that possible?
Lily Allen: Obviously I’ll read the YouTube comments under a new single, but I’m not going to read think pieces. My mum says, “Has anything changed since they wrote that article?” No.
How much impact does the fact that the money no longer comes from the music have on this?
Because the racism row effectively framed the release of that song for a while...
Lily Allen: It became the story, but only to people like us, on Twitter. Most people just thought it was a funny video. Most people listen to the radio on the way to work, watch EastEnders, go to bed. They’re not thinking about the Lily Allen race row – they’ve got lives.
Did you decide to manage your career in a different way this time round?
Lily Allen: Maybe. Now I’m not earning much from the music, I won’t do as much promo for the record company. It’s changed in that sense. I have to look at other ways.
Back then it was about doing as much press as possible, but now one quote will spread everywhere. So you don’t want to do as much, because you saturate the media very quickly. Jonathan Ross, X Factor, so many opinions, it’s too much. You want to hold it back.
What’s a typical day for you?
Lily Allen: No such thing. Let’s look in my iCal... Monday: “Probs go to Paris for Chanel,” haha!
Jesus, who are you?!
Lily Allen: I know! And then, look, all these other things are being added in as we speak. Filming, radio. I sleep in a lot of hotels at the moment. But I’m going home to see my babies tonight.
Will they tour with you?
Lily Allen: Ideally, if they were a bit older, but I don’t want to make them feel unsettled. I’m figuring out what’s the number of days I can be away for.
Which is your favourite of the new songs?
Lily Allen: Sheezus. It makes me laugh. It’s really silly. I like the period bit.
The guy I wrote it with is a proper hip-hop producer from LA, and it was the first day we met. It was a bit awkward, and it wasn’t helped by the second verse being me going, “Periods, we all get periods...”
Actually, we came up with the album title before the song, so we wrote the song to fit. What rhymes with Sheezus? Divas! We worked back from there. A lot of it is just working back from the rhymes. Two words that make a funny rhyme, then I try and contextualise it.
Do your daughters know what you do?
Lily Allen: Their nanny took them to the shops recently, and Ethel saw me on the cover of Look magazine, and had a complete freak out. So the nanny went to buy the magazine for her.
And then Ethel saw there was another me behind it, so it ended up with them having to buy the whole rack of Look magazines because Ethel wouldn’t leave Mummy.
She’s quite a good reference point for when I’ve gone too far with hair and makeup actually. She’s like, “Mummy Mummy!” then suddenly, nothing.
Does it feel OK, being away from them?
Lily Allen: I have to pretend it feels OK, because it’s got to work. It feels like it’s going to be a bit of a struggle. There aren’t really that many women that do it successfully. Madonna? Britney – hasn’t really worked. Christina Aguilera? Not really. Beyoncé’s done alright.
How do you feel about being back under the lights?
Lily Allen: I feel good. But last time round I was 21, 22. I was full of beans, in every sense of the word, I had a lot more energy. At the same time I was partying and staying up till 6am.
Would you like to be doing that now?
Lily Allen: No. It’s never as glamorous as it looks. It’s fun until 2am, when nobody gets anything out of it apart from the drug dealer. It’s nice not to have that option really. I’m quite self-destructive, so if I had the option I probably would.
Have you given up... everything?
Lily Allen: Yes. I’ve even given up smoking! Which is insane.
But you love smoking.
Lily Allen: My godfather died last month from liver cancer. I got a call from his son outside the hospital, saying, “I think you should get here.” And I looked at my cigarette and thought, “What am I doing?”
It’s the thing about having kids – you start thinking about what you’re going to leave behind. We all know how much our parents mould who we are. I want to do it as best I can. I don’t want to be a smoky cokey mum. I hope I can keep it up.
I really do love smoking. I find it glamorous, sexy, cool. It just kills you.
Is your personality something you constantly have to keep in check?
Lily Allen: I’m not only addictive, I’m rebellious and self-destructive. It’s something I have to fight now – whether it’s offending someone, or drinking, smoking. Doing something I shouldn’t be doing. Denying myself happiness, clarity. Constant distractions.
I remember when I went into treatment – not for drugs or anything, just when I had a bit of a wobble – I went into a “place” and they told me to sit on my bed, without television...